Have you ever wanted to invest with a partner, or with an investing club? Or maybe you have a bunch of family members that want to pool their money together to invest. One of the best ways to do this is by setting up an LLC for investing.
An LLC is a limited liability company, and it can be a vehicle for a lot of purposes. One of the more interesting uses of an LLC is to allow groups of people to pool their money together to invest. Here's why and how you might want to consider setting up an LLC for investing.
Why Setup an LLC For Investing
The strength of using an LLC for investing comes from the LLC operating agreement. The LLC operating agreement describes what can and cannot be done in the LLC. As such, it works very well for setting up an investing vehicle for multiple people or parties.
For example, a common provision in the LLC operating agreement is how individuals can sell their shares in the company. Typically, when you setup an LLC for investing, you forbid other members from selling their shares in the LLC without other member's permission. This will prevent changes in the ownership structure without all members agreeing. Since many LLCs are setup for families, this keeps the ownership of the LLC in the family.
Another common provision is defining how the money in the LLC will be invested. Similar to a mutual fund prospectus or ETF prospectus, you can define how the LLC will invest in the operating agreement – maybe requiring at least 60% of the funds invested in stocks. Having a solidified plan and structure makes it easier to have consensus across all parties.
Finally, some operating agreements may require members to make regular contributions to the LLC. If you are setting up an LLC for an investment club, you may require that each member contribute $50 per month to the LLC. This keeps all club members vested in the club and the LLC.
Famous Family LLCs for Investing
You may not realize this, but many wealthy individuals use LLCs to invest. For example, Wal-Mart's largest shareholder is Walton Enterprises LLC. This is the LLC formed by the Walton family to control ownership of Wal-Mart. The Walton Enterprises LLC has 6 known members, the heirs to Sam Walton's empire. Combined, the Walton family is worth almost $150 billion. However, most of this wealth is tied up in the LLC. In turn, the LLC owns assets like Wal-Mart, and several other smaller companies.
Bill Gates is another famous individual that holds most of his wealth in an LLC. He owns Cascade Investment LLC, which controls his remaining stakes in Microsoft and other investments that he makes.
Where To Setup and Invest With An LLC
Anyone can setup an LLC for investing pretty easily. They key is to make sure that all members of the LLC agree on the operating agreement, which are the terms by which the LLC will operate.
If you want to setup an LLC for investing, I recommend Nolo. It's the company that I used to setup my LLC and I've been very happy with them. Their prices are reasonable, and their support is great. It will take you about an hour to setup your LLC for investing with Nolo. Then, Nolo will file your paperwork with your state, and you should be official in a few weeks (or months depending on your state).
Once you have your LLC paperwork, you need to open a brokerage account in the name of the LLC. I recommend using Scottrade to open your LLC investing account. When you go to open an account through this link, you simply select “Other Account Type” and the “Limited Liability Company”. They will then ask you for the information from your LLC operating agreement, and they will also want a copy of it when you're done applying.
This is also an account that you typically can't just open online, but you can get the investing account open very quickly once you send in your LLC operating agreement. I would estimate you would be good to go in about a week.
Want other options for companies to open an LLC for investing at? Check out this list of the best deals for opening up an brokerage account:
If you want the full list, check it out here.
Do you use an LLC for investing? Have you considered opening an account with friends or family?
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Wow, I had never thought of such an idea. Really interesting, certainly a safe way to approach investing with friends or family!
Is there any reason to create an investment LLC other than as an investment vehicle of multiple people? Tax implications, etc?
Tax implications are pretty much the same for individuals regardless of how you structure the partnership.
So this is something I’ve been trying to also work out.
Here’s my line of thought so far.
LLCs can be taxed as corporations.
Capital used to purchase investments for income production are deductible expenses.
I don’t fully understand how those deductions carry over from year to year if they are not fully used.
But, at least some of that deduction should offset income, reducing tax liability to potentially nothing. This is especially true if capital injections happen routinely.
The LLC can also retain earnings and abstain from paying dividends- when taxed as a corp- allowing LLC members to avoid the pass through tax effect.
In effect this would create a tax free investment vehicle at least until there is serious income generation…. which makes me think I’m missing something.
You should talk to a tax professional for the implications of electing to be taxed as a corporation. Most use an LLC for investing for the liability protection and organization. There is likely a negative tax consequence, but I couldn’t tell you.
Do you know whether you can run investment expenses directly through the LLC and what filings would be needed? Also, since there is usually an annual expense for LLC registration in most states, wouldn’t a partnership make more sense?
I couldn’t tell you specifically what would make sense for you. Best to speak with an accountant and an attorney.
If you set up an LLC for investing, can you get anybody to donate to your fund or just the original members? And is it possible for an LLC to set up a family and friends fund where the managers don’t need a series seven in order to trade the money in the fund?
You would need to consult an attorney and an accountant.
Robert,
This was a very good read. Before reading your article I was looking a setting up a corporation for investing purposes. I was under the impression that with a corporation, I could take advantage of the tax “loopholes” that corporations receive versus individuals. Are you familiar with the differences (if any) of setting up a corporation versus a LLC? If so, which would you recommend and why?
Thank you in advance for your time sir!
It’s my understanding that using an LLC is essentially just the same as investing as an individual with a few caveats/bonuses:
I BELIEVE (consult an accountant and attorney) an LLC allows you to write off interest (margin) expenses and things like business cell phones and internet lines as expense, yet still count the gains as capital gains. An LLC also shelters you from stuff like blowing out your margin account.
The corporate route is only good if you’re investing tons of money. With a C-Corp you can hire family members and pay them out of profits. You can also pay for business travel and give everyone healthcare and retirement (401k) perks. The problem with a C-Corp is you pay corporate income taxes on all your investment gains and then if you pay yourself a salary you essentially get taxed TWICE. If you pay yourself a dividend you still get taxed 2x, but at a lower rate.
Essentially an LLC is superior in just about every way. I’m not real sure about the ability to deduct margin expenses though… I know that’s a major rip-off for the standard middle-class individual since higher income folks can itemize these expenses.
Is an LLC a good form of asset protection in the event the owner/partner is sued? The owner is at fault in accident, the injured party and his Lawyer are going to want more than the insurance co pays. If your liquid assets are in an LLC, it should give them pause. I’m not a lawyer so see one.
Possibly, but you have to remember that the owner does personally own shares in the business (just like a stock). As such, if the owner is sued directly, the ownership of the business could be an asset that could be considered by a judge.
The smarter way to do it is to have a trust own the shares of the LLC. Then you are more protected.
However, I’m also not a lawyer, so always seek legal advice.
Hey Robert,
I was wondering what the tax benefits are of using an LLC? I know it’s a pass through entity, but this is confusing because I
Hear people say there are tax benefits.
I’ll give you a situation. Let’s say you put 10k in the bank account of your LLC. The 10k triggers the IRS to look at the account. You spend all that money on stocks and maybe you get money back but keep spending it on stocks.In your experience can
You write off everything you spend? Or do you have to save some off to the side? Also can you pay taxes quarterly if one chooses?
There can potentially be tax benefits of investing in an LLC, but it’s all about how you structure it. It doesn’t have to be a pass-through entity, it can elect to be taxed as an s-corp, and you can elect to be paid a salary versus pass through gains. However, in the investing context, that might not make much sense.
As for the books, you only pay tax on your gains, and you can choose to pay taxes quarterly, but it rarely makes sense for an individual investor that has a full time job.
Also I wanted to know how registering in another state works? I read somewhere you have to have an office in that state to register your LLC with the Secretary of State. I know there are fee benefits for being in certain states.
If you do have to have an office do you know an easy way to get around this?
It’s not about having the office, but it’s about where you make the money. Let’s say I setup a Nevada LLC, but make all my money in California. It doesn’t matter that it’s a Nevada LLC, as I still pay California taxes on the income. There are fee benefits, but setting it up out of state can get expensive and usually washes the benefit (or close to washes).
So when you say I pay taxes on my gains, does this mean that if 10k showed up in my LLC bank account but I never brought it to my personal account, that would be considered a gain? Then I would be taxed from the whole thing?
As far as structuring, would it be smart to be taxed as a sole proprietor instead of S Corp, if I don’t care to to bother to
Withdraw money at this time? I care to invest and reinvest.
Do you know any good books or articles so that I can learn how to structure it for my specific needs?
It’s not about deposits or withdrawals. It’s about the income earned. I don’t know what you mean by “10k showed up”. If you just deposited $10k, then there is no taxes due. If you earned $10k fro capital gains or dividends, then you’d owe taxes on that.
As for resources, I don’t know of any books, which is partly why I wrote this article myself.
Well let’s say a friend deposited 10k into a bank account. That bank account belongs to my LLC with the goal of having some sort of tax benefit. It seems really really difficult to find out what the tax benefits are no matter which books I read or other knowledgable people who say tax benefits exist.
So I’m really trying to do this, but I really don’t know how to structure it, since I explained the situation. 10k donated to my LLC. The plan is to invest. Are there taxes on that 10k upon hitting the bank account? Knowing People who work at banks and other people who invest, they say 10k and over gets reported to IRS immediately. Which is
Fine, I want to do everything legally, but I’m really wobbling as I seek answers.
Next scenario, I take the 10k and invest it and the account goes to 0 in balance. 4 months later, 20k goes into the account. Is this all considered income even know it never went to my personal bank? Or is considered business expenditures? Where is the line of taxes involved and when does it occur?
There aren’t really tax benefits to this – you treat taxability the same whether an LLC, sole proprietor, corporation, etc. What you get from the LLC is structure and/or rules for dealing with partners, and some liability protection if you need it (say for investing in real estate).
You’re really concerned about money going in and out of the LLC. Taxes aren’t like that – it’s about gains and losses on income and investments, and you’d report it the same as if you didn’t have the LLC. The only difference is, if you have multiple members, you’d split it. So, if you lost $10k investing, you’d take that as a loss. If you had a partner, you’d each take $5k losses.
I don’t know where these donations come from – I’ll call it capital contributions – you contribute this money to the LLC. It’s not taxable contributing it. Does that make more sense?
Yea that makes more sense. This is not a hypothetical scenario. Everything I described really has happened in my life, so the answers mean a lot to me
And so I want to thank you for being helpful.
So upon capital contributions hitting the LLC bank account that is not taxable. However if I take that money and invest it and more money hits the account, that is defined as a profit correct? or is it only profit when it leaves the LLC to to my own personal bank account?
No, you can withdraw money and it’s not necessarily profit either. If you invest it and it gains money, then you sell it to actually book the gain, that’s profit. It doesn’t matter what you pull out of the LLC.
Let’s say you had $10k in there, and it grows to $11k. Then you pull out $10,500 – leaving just $500 in the LLC. You still pay tax on the $1,000 profit, regardless of what stays in the LLC or leaves the LLC.
Ooh ok got it. Thank you for making it that clear.
What if I leave money in the account? Can I be taxed on that?
Yes, it doesn’t matter where the money is or was. Everything you do in the LLC passes through to you on your tax return.
If there are losses over 3000$ will the entire losses be reported as business loss or take only 3k and the rest of the losses rolls over ?
It depends on your elected tax structure, but typically everything passes through just like you personally owning the losses.
I emailed Schwab about investing via an LLC. They told me i could NOT use their individual account with the 1000-dollar minimum but must use their “organization” account which is a 250,000-dollar minimum.
Hello I have a question. If I set up an LLC for investments ( stocks and real estate) can I re-invest profits and count them as expenses? Lets say I have a rental house and after six months I take the profits from the rental and invest them in stocks in the LLC brokerage account. Can that count as an expense for my LLC or do I have to pay taxes on them first? Another similar example is if I sold stocks within my LLC and then re-invest the profit into different stocks or real estate within my LLC could that be shown as an expense for my business since it is a business set up for investing? I would really appreciate any help on this because it’s been hard finding answers to these questions. Thanks!
You always pay taxes on the profits regardless if you reinvest or don’t. The expense would be any loss you take, not simply the act of investing.
hi – I’m looking into setting up an investment LLC with one other person. the focus of the LLC will largely be real estate investments and we have one initial development project we are about to jump into. My question is related to qualified expenses in the LLC, clearly gains/losses on the investments themselves will be accounted for under the LLC but what about scouting trip expenses where we are incurring travel expenses in looking at prospective investments, are those all qualified to offset gains/income in the LLC? thanks much for your guidance.
You’d need to consult with a CPA for that.
Can someone set up a LLC that is structured to let others buy shares of ownership?
On the weekends I mow lawns and do lots of odd jobs. I wanted to set up a LLC so that I can start a legitimate lawn service and junk removal company. If I invest profits from my operations into stocks and bonds under the LLC can I sell private shares of my LLC? If not shares could I sell percentages of equity?
This all comes about because a small group of my family is setting up a Investment Club and before I read this article I was trying to think of ways the club could make money to invest and tying that into the part time work I do on the weekends.
Thanks for any help.
Yes, you can sell shares of your LLC, regardless of what the LLC does. You spell out how to buy and sell shares in the LLC agreement. This is a common way that many people create investment clubs, own real estate, etc.
I have several questions…! To set up a LLC for Brokerage account, what kind of specific lawyer should it be best to contact? If I’m in NY but I set up the LLC in lets say Wyoming, should I contact a lawyer in Wyoming or NY? If one of the members and only manager of the LLC if a foreigner, do I need to register the company in my state (NY) given that I won’t be doing anything from here? Thanks!
That sounds a bit complicated. You should probably talk to a lawyer that specializes in it.
Reading through all these comments, it sounds like you’re saying an LLC is taxed in the exact same way an individual gets taxed on capital gains. My question is, if I turn this into a business that I essentially live off of, can I set up the account to be taxed as “business income” rather than “capital gains”?
It depends on how you elect your LLC to be taxed. Single member LLCs typically are taxed as a sole proprietor, unless you opt to change it.
Here’s some good information from the IRS on how it’s taxed, and what you can elect: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/limited-liability-company-llc
After discussed with my friends of your article, we would like to setup a LLC for our investment. However, some people live in California some people live in Texas. So where (which state) should we setup our LLC?
Thanks.
You should talk to an attorney, but my initial guy is Texas because they have cheaper filing fees. LLCs only cost $300 in Texas, versus $800 in CA. As for your income, you’ll be a partnership so each of you will pay your respective state taxes on your portion of the gains/losses. Also, your Texas friends need to remember that Texas does charge a state income tax on earnings from the LLC – so they will need to file a state income tax return.
Can i use personal brokerage account to buy/sell stocks on behalf of LLC? Or do i have to open business brokerage account under LLC name?
You need to open a brokerage with the LLC name on it.
Four members of my family establish an LLC, fund it with personal after-tax money, then purchase a dividend-paying stock. Let’s say I accumulate $600 in dividends each year. If annual business filing fees are $300 in my state, can I deduct the $300 from the $600 income the business is generating resulting in a $300 tax liability that is passed through to the members?
For an LLC, all members receive their share of profits and expenses.
In your example, if they all have equal shares, they would each receive a K-1 showing:
– $150 income
– $75 in expenses
– $75 in net profit