Have you ever wanted to invest with a partner, or with an investing club? Or maybe you have a bunch of family members that want to pool their money together to invest. One of the best ways to do this is by setting up an LLC for investing.
An LLC is a limited liability company, and it can be a vehicle for a lot of purposes. One of the more interesting uses of an LLC is to allow groups of people to pool their money together to invest. It can also be used to invest in other things, such as real estate.
With the recent passage of the Trump Tax Plan, many people have been excited about the idea of setting up an LLC to potentially save money on taxes. But can you? We'll discuss the tax implications below.
Here's why and how you might want to consider setting up an LLC for investing.
Why Setup an LLC For Investing
The strength of using an LLC for investing comes from the LLC operating agreement. The LLC operating agreement describes what can and cannot be done in the LLC. As such, it works very well for setting up an investing vehicle for multiple people or parties.
For example, a common provision in the LLC operating agreement is how individuals can sell their shares in the company. Typically, when you setup an LLC for investing, you forbid other members from selling their shares in the LLC without other member's permission. This will prevent changes in the ownership structure without all members agreeing. Since many LLCs are setup for families, this keeps the ownership of the LLC in the family.
Another common provision is defining how the money in the LLC will be invested. Similar to a mutual fund prospectus or ETF prospectus, you can define how the LLC will invest in the operating agreement - maybe requiring at least 60% of the funds invested in stocks. Having a solidified plan and structure makes it easier to have consensus across all parties.
Finally, some operating agreements may require members to make regular contributions to the LLC. If you are setting up an LLC for an investment club, you may require that each member contribute $50 per month to the LLC. This keeps all club members vested in the club and the LLC.
Famous Family LLCs for Investing
You may not realize this, but many wealthy individuals use LLCs to invest. For example, Wal-Mart's largest shareholder is Walton Enterprises LLC. This is the LLC formed by the Walton family to control ownership of Wal-Mart. The Walton Enterprises LLC has 6 known members, the heirs to Sam Walton's empire. Combined, the Walton family is worth almost $150 billion. However, most of this wealth is tied up in the LLC. In turn, the LLC owns assets like Wal-Mart, and several other smaller companies.
Bill Gates is another famous individual that holds most of his wealth in an LLC. He owns Cascade Investment LLC, which controls his remaining stakes in Microsoft and other investments that he makes.
Where To Setup and Invest With An LLC
Anyone can setup an LLC for investing pretty easily. They key is to make sure that all members of the LLC agree on the operating agreement, which are the terms by which the LLC will operate.
There are two ways to approach this - depending on if you're investing with others, or investing for retirement.
Investing With Others
If you want to setup an LLC for investing, I recommend Nolo. It's the company that I used to setup my LLC and I've been very happy with them. Their prices are reasonable, and their support is great. It will take you about an hour to setup your LLC for investing with Nolo. Then, Nolo will file your paperwork with your state, and you should be official in a few weeks (or months depending on your state).
Note: Some states have fees associated with the LLC. For example, in California, you have to pay at least $800 per year to maintain your LLC. Be sure you're aware of your state requirements when getting started.
Once you have your LLC paperwork, you need to open a brokerage account in the name of the LLC. I recommend using TD Ameritrade or this. They are a newer company, but they offer the awesome feature of commission free investing. What's great about this for LLC investing is you can setup your "pie" of investments per your agreement, and M1 handles the rest commission free!
Open an account at TD Ameritrade here.
To get started at TD Ameritrade, you simply select "Other Account Type" and the "Limited Liability Company". They will then ask you for the information from your LLC operating agreement, and they will also want a copy of it when you're done applying.
This is also an account that you typically can't just open online, but you can get the investing account open very quickly once you send in your LLC operating agreement. I would estimate you would be good to go in about a week. When I opened our account, it took about 2 hours to get the paperwork done, and the account was opened by the end of the week. We were also able to get a signup bonus for our initial deposit when we opened the account.
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Investing For Retirement
If you want to invest in non-traditional assets (like real estate, crytpo, etc.) and you have a retirement account, you can still do it - but you just do it through an LLC.
This is especially helpful for individuals with a solo 401k or large IRA.
In this case, you should look into 401k or IRA providers that offer checkbook control of your investments - meaning they will setup an LLC that is owned by your IRA or 401k.
One of our picks to set this up is RocketDollar. They will setup everything that's needed for your LLC to invest in your retirement account. Check out RocketDollar here >>
Using An LLC For Real Estate Investments
One of the most common reasons to use an LLC for investing is to invest in real estate. An LLC will protect you from potential liabilities that arise, as well as provide a framework for dividing up the investment ownership of the property.
This can work really well if you plan on owning multiple properties, or if you have multiple investors in one property.
One of my favorite ways to get started with rental properties is through crowd funding. Similar to LendingClub, you can start investing in real estate for as little as $5,000 at platforms like RealtyMogul. Want to do it as a group? Well, then each person can invest - once again saving yourself the DIY headache.
Another similar platform is FundRise. They only have a $500 minimum to get started and offer a variety of options we love as well! FundRise has really been a great performing passive income investment over the last year!
Both of these platforms allow you to use an LLC to invest, but you'll have to talk to their customer service teams to get started.
The Tax Implications Of Using An LLC For Investments
With all the talk surrounding the Trump Tax Cuts that went into effect in 2018, a lot of people have started wondering if using an LLC would potentially help them with taxes? I mean, who doesn't want to save money in taxes?!?
Important note: I'm not an accountant or tax professional, and I'm definitely not your accountant or tax professional. You should seek the guidance for a tax professional if you have any questions surrounding the tax implications of your investments, business structure, etc.
Okay, with that being said, what are the tax implications of using an LLC for investments?
The IRS doesn't recognize the LLC as an entity - it's pass-through. What this means is, each member reports their share of "whatever" on their taxes as if the LLC doesn't exist. So, if you have 2 people and your operating agreement specifies a 50/50 split, then each person reports their income, losses, dividends, whatever, 50/50.
So, most LLCs used for investing would have capital gains, losses, and dividends. Each would then be allocated to the members per the operating agreement. The members would, in turn, each report the amount on their taxes as if they had received them themselves. As such, each members tax implications would be different.
What about the 20% tax cuts for LLCs? This is a common misconception. The 20% pass-through income deduction is for business owners who own their business in a pass-through entity. So, if you don't own a business, you don't get any deduction. Simply holding investments in an LLC is not owning a business.
So, if you're just investing within an LLC, you don't get any type of special tax treatment. The IRS basically views everything as if the LLC doesn't exist.
Alternatives To Using An LLC
So, if you don't get any special tax treatment for using an LLC, why would you use one to invest?
Well, it all comes down to investing with other people. If you're going to pool your money with other people, you want some organization and agreement to how things get done.
So, the common scenarios for using an LLC are:
- An Investment Club
- Real Estate
- Family Business/Money
Let's talk about each one and some alternatives for each:
Investment Clubs
Investment clubs where you actually pool your money are dying. The reason? Investing is so cheap these days! There's no reason to pool your money.
It used to be a huge cost savings to work together when investing. Let's say you had 20 members in an investing club and you all agree to buy a specific stock. If you didn't pool your money, each member would have to pay a commission - $9.99 per trade. So, as a group, the investing club would lose almost $200 in fees. If you pooled your money, there would be just one trade - costing $9.99. That would save the collective group $190.
Now, with services like M1 Finance, which allows you to invest for free, there's no reason to pool your money. The club can create a portfolio, and each member of the club can execute the changes at NO COST!
Check out the other apps to invest for free here.
Real Estate
Real estate is still a great scenario for using an LLC, especially if you're going to be allocating income and expenses differently than ownership.
However, there are alternatives to how you own real estate (though, not as good). Specifically, you can hold title on the property directly as joint tenants. This takes care of ownership, but doesn't help with income and expenses.
If you are just a partnership, you can divide it. But, if you get more than 2 people, you probably want an LLC. Plus, an LLC is great for liability purposes.
Family Money
Just the like Walton's, if there is a significant amount of assets, including a business, and many family members that "own" it, it can make a lot of sense to put this into an LLC with a clearly definite operating agreement and manager.
This is expensive - so this is typically reserved for large estates. If you just have a little money to invest, it really doesn't make sense to go through the hassle of an LLC.
Do you use an LLC for investing? Have you considered opening an account with friends or family?
Robert Farrington is America’s Millennial Money Expert® and America’s Student Loan Debt Expert™, and the founder of The College Investor, a personal finance site dedicated to helping millennials escape student loan debt to start investing and building wealth for the future. You can learn more about him here and here.
He regularly writes about investing, student loan debt, and general personal finance topics geared towards anyone wanting to earn more, get out of debt, and start building wealth for the future.
He has been quoted in major publications including the New York Times, Washington Post, Fox, ABC, NBC, and more. He is also a regular contributor to Forbes.
Wow, I had never thought of such an idea. Really interesting, certainly a safe way to approach investing with friends or family!
Is there any reason to create an investment LLC other than as an investment vehicle of multiple people? Tax implications, etc?
Tax implications are pretty much the same for individuals regardless of how you structure the partnership.
So this is something I’ve been trying to also work out.
Here’s my line of thought so far.
LLCs can be taxed as corporations.
Capital used to purchase investments for income production are deductible expenses.
I don’t fully understand how those deductions carry over from year to year if they are not fully used.
But, at least some of that deduction should offset income, reducing tax liability to potentially nothing. This is especially true if capital injections happen routinely.
The LLC can also retain earnings and abstain from paying dividends- when taxed as a corp- allowing LLC members to avoid the pass through tax effect.
In effect this would create a tax free investment vehicle at least until there is serious income generation…. which makes me think I’m missing something.
You should talk to a tax professional for the implications of electing to be taxed as a corporation. Most use an LLC for investing for the liability protection and organization. There is likely a negative tax consequence, but I couldn’t tell you.
Do you know whether you can run investment expenses directly through the LLC and what filings would be needed? Also, since there is usually an annual expense for LLC registration in most states, wouldn’t a partnership make more sense?
I couldn’t tell you specifically what would make sense for you. Best to speak with an accountant and an attorney.
The same can also be achieved using a Trust.
If you set up an LLC for investing, can you get anybody to donate to your fund or just the original members? And is it possible for an LLC to set up a family and friends fund where the managers don’t need a series seven in order to trade the money in the fund?
You would need to consult an attorney and an accountant.
Robert,
This was a very good read. Before reading your article I was looking a setting up a corporation for investing purposes. I was under the impression that with a corporation, I could take advantage of the tax “loopholes” that corporations receive versus individuals. Are you familiar with the differences (if any) of setting up a corporation versus a LLC? If so, which would you recommend and why?
Thank you in advance for your time sir!
It’s my understanding that using an LLC is essentially just the same as investing as an individual with a few caveats/bonuses:
I BELIEVE (consult an accountant and attorney) an LLC allows you to write off interest (margin) expenses and things like business cell phones and internet lines as expense, yet still count the gains as capital gains. An LLC also shelters you from stuff like blowing out your margin account.
The corporate route is only good if you’re investing tons of money. With a C-Corp you can hire family members and pay them out of profits. You can also pay for business travel and give everyone healthcare and retirement (401k) perks. The problem with a C-Corp is you pay corporate income taxes on all your investment gains and then if you pay yourself a salary you essentially get taxed TWICE. If you pay yourself a dividend you still get taxed 2x, but at a lower rate.
Essentially an LLC is superior in just about every way. I’m not real sure about the ability to deduct margin expenses though… I know that’s a major rip-off for the standard middle-class individual since higher income folks can itemize these expenses.
Under the new tax rules effective 1/1/18, whether incurred as an individual or within a partnership or LLC, investment expenses, also known as portfolio deductions, are 100% NON-deductible. The entity details the expenses, but upon pass-through to the individual, they are not deductible. Margin interest expense is still deductible as investment interest expense (as a schedule A itemized deduction for individuals; as investment interest expense on the partnership/LLC return that will pass through to the individual and be claimed on schedule A). In order for those investment expenses to be fully deductible, the investing activity would have to rise to the level of being or trade or business, which your article already correctly indicated an investment entity is NOT. The activity that would have to occur for an investing activity to rise to the level of a trade or business is beyond the scope of a short post.
Is an LLC a good form of asset protection in the event the owner/partner is sued? The owner is at fault in accident, the injured party and his Lawyer are going to want more than the insurance co pays. If your liquid assets are in an LLC, it should give them pause. I’m not a lawyer so see one.
Possibly, but you have to remember that the owner does personally own shares in the business (just like a stock). As such, if the owner is sued directly, the ownership of the business could be an asset that could be considered by a judge.
The smarter way to do it is to have a trust own the shares of the LLC. Then you are more protected.
However, I’m also not a lawyer, so always seek legal advice.
Its called charging order of protection. Several states like Oklahoma,and south dakota will not allow members of LLCs who are sued, to have their percentage in the llc attached by creditors.
An LLC has to have a business, investment or profit intent. You cannot put your personal assets into an LLC and shield them from lawsuits. Further, while an LLC offers limited liability protection, it doesn’t offer FULL liability protection. And, depending on what has occurred, if the LLC is being sued, more likely than not, the individual owners will be named as party to the lawsuit too, especially if they are member-managers and/or if the LLC was too thinly capitalized.
Hey Robert,
I was wondering what the tax benefits are of using an LLC? I know it’s a pass through entity, but this is confusing because I
Hear people say there are tax benefits.
I’ll give you a situation. Let’s say you put 10k in the bank account of your LLC. The 10k triggers the IRS to look at the account. You spend all that money on stocks and maybe you get money back but keep spending it on stocks.In your experience can
You write off everything you spend? Or do you have to save some off to the side? Also can you pay taxes quarterly if one chooses?
There can potentially be tax benefits of investing in an LLC, but it’s all about how you structure it. It doesn’t have to be a pass-through entity, it can elect to be taxed as an s-corp, and you can elect to be paid a salary versus pass through gains. However, in the investing context, that might not make much sense.
As for the books, you only pay tax on your gains, and you can choose to pay taxes quarterly, but it rarely makes sense for an individual investor that has a full time job.
Also I wanted to know how registering in another state works? I read somewhere you have to have an office in that state to register your LLC with the Secretary of State. I know there are fee benefits for being in certain states.
If you do have to have an office do you know an easy way to get around this?
It’s not about having the office, but it’s about where you make the money. Let’s say I setup a Nevada LLC, but make all my money in California. It doesn’t matter that it’s a Nevada LLC, as I still pay California taxes on the income. There are fee benefits, but setting it up out of state can get expensive and usually washes the benefit (or close to washes).
Most states require a registered agent in their state, not that you have offices. You pay this registered agent roughly $100 per year.
So when you say I pay taxes on my gains, does this mean that if 10k showed up in my LLC bank account but I never brought it to my personal account, that would be considered a gain? Then I would be taxed from the whole thing?
As far as structuring, would it be smart to be taxed as a sole proprietor instead of S Corp, if I don’t care to to bother to
Withdraw money at this time? I care to invest and reinvest.
Do you know any good books or articles so that I can learn how to structure it for my specific needs?
It’s not about deposits or withdrawals. It’s about the income earned. I don’t know what you mean by “10k showed up”. If you just deposited $10k, then there is no taxes due. If you earned $10k fro capital gains or dividends, then you’d owe taxes on that.
As for resources, I don’t know of any books, which is partly why I wrote this article myself.
Well let’s say a friend deposited 10k into a bank account. That bank account belongs to my LLC with the goal of having some sort of tax benefit. It seems really really difficult to find out what the tax benefits are no matter which books I read or other knowledgable people who say tax benefits exist.
So I’m really trying to do this, but I really don’t know how to structure it, since I explained the situation. 10k donated to my LLC. The plan is to invest. Are there taxes on that 10k upon hitting the bank account? Knowing People who work at banks and other people who invest, they say 10k and over gets reported to IRS immediately. Which is
Fine, I want to do everything legally, but I’m really wobbling as I seek answers.
Next scenario, I take the 10k and invest it and the account goes to 0 in balance. 4 months later, 20k goes into the account. Is this all considered income even know it never went to my personal bank? Or is considered business expenditures? Where is the line of taxes involved and when does it occur?
There aren’t really tax benefits to this – you treat taxability the same whether an LLC, sole proprietor, corporation, etc. What you get from the LLC is structure and/or rules for dealing with partners, and some liability protection if you need it (say for investing in real estate).
You’re really concerned about money going in and out of the LLC. Taxes aren’t like that – it’s about gains and losses on income and investments, and you’d report it the same as if you didn’t have the LLC. The only difference is, if you have multiple members, you’d split it. So, if you lost $10k investing, you’d take that as a loss. If you had a partner, you’d each take $5k losses.
I don’t know where these donations come from – I’ll call it capital contributions – you contribute this money to the LLC. It’s not taxable contributing it. Does that make more sense?
Yea that makes more sense. This is not a hypothetical scenario. Everything I described really has happened in my life, so the answers mean a lot to me
And so I want to thank you for being helpful.
So upon capital contributions hitting the LLC bank account that is not taxable. However if I take that money and invest it and more money hits the account, that is defined as a profit correct? or is it only profit when it leaves the LLC to to my own personal bank account?
No, you can withdraw money and it’s not necessarily profit either. If you invest it and it gains money, then you sell it to actually book the gain, that’s profit. It doesn’t matter what you pull out of the LLC.
Let’s say you had $10k in there, and it grows to $11k. Then you pull out $10,500 – leaving just $500 in the LLC. You still pay tax on the $1,000 profit, regardless of what stays in the LLC or leaves the LLC.
Ooh ok got it. Thank you for making it that clear.
What if I leave money in the account? Can I be taxed on that?
Yes, it doesn’t matter where the money is or was. Everything you do in the LLC passes through to you on your tax return.
If there are losses over 3000$ will the entire losses be reported as business loss or take only 3k and the rest of the losses rolls over ?
It depends on your elected tax structure, but typically everything passes through just like you personally owning the losses.
I emailed Schwab about investing via an LLC. They told me i could NOT use their individual account with the 1000-dollar minimum but must use their “organization” account which is a 250,000-dollar minimum.
Hello I have a question. If I set up an LLC for investments ( stocks and real estate) can I re-invest profits and count them as expenses? Lets say I have a rental house and after six months I take the profits from the rental and invest them in stocks in the LLC brokerage account. Can that count as an expense for my LLC or do I have to pay taxes on them first? Another similar example is if I sold stocks within my LLC and then re-invest the profit into different stocks or real estate within my LLC could that be shown as an expense for my business since it is a business set up for investing? I would really appreciate any help on this because it’s been hard finding answers to these questions. Thanks!
You always pay taxes on the profits regardless if you reinvest or don’t. The expense would be any loss you take, not simply the act of investing.
hi – I’m looking into setting up an investment LLC with one other person. the focus of the LLC will largely be real estate investments and we have one initial development project we are about to jump into. My question is related to qualified expenses in the LLC, clearly gains/losses on the investments themselves will be accounted for under the LLC but what about scouting trip expenses where we are incurring travel expenses in looking at prospective investments, are those all qualified to offset gains/income in the LLC? thanks much for your guidance.
You’d need to consult with a CPA for that.
Can someone set up a LLC that is structured to let others buy shares of ownership?
On the weekends I mow lawns and do lots of odd jobs. I wanted to set up a LLC so that I can start a legitimate lawn service and junk removal company. If I invest profits from my operations into stocks and bonds under the LLC can I sell private shares of my LLC? If not shares could I sell percentages of equity?
This all comes about because a small group of my family is setting up a Investment Club and before I read this article I was trying to think of ways the club could make money to invest and tying that into the part time work I do on the weekends.
Thanks for any help.
Yes, you can sell shares of your LLC, regardless of what the LLC does. You spell out how to buy and sell shares in the LLC agreement. This is a common way that many people create investment clubs, own real estate, etc.
I believe you are limited in how many members you can have. If you have more then 35 you need to register the old with the SEC
I have several questions…! To set up a LLC for Brokerage account, what kind of specific lawyer should it be best to contact? If I’m in NY but I set up the LLC in lets say Wyoming, should I contact a lawyer in Wyoming or NY? If one of the members and only manager of the LLC if a foreigner, do I need to register the company in my state (NY) given that I won’t be doing anything from here? Thanks!
That sounds a bit complicated. You should probably talk to a lawyer that specializes in it.
Reading through all these comments, it sounds like you’re saying an LLC is taxed in the exact same way an individual gets taxed on capital gains. My question is, if I turn this into a business that I essentially live off of, can I set up the account to be taxed as “business income” rather than “capital gains”?
It depends on how you elect your LLC to be taxed. Single member LLCs typically are taxed as a sole proprietor, unless you opt to change it.
Here’s some good information from the IRS on how it’s taxed, and what you can elect: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/limited-liability-company-llc
After discussed with my friends of your article, we would like to setup a LLC for our investment. However, some people live in California some people live in Texas. So where (which state) should we setup our LLC?
Thanks.
You should talk to an attorney, but my initial guy is Texas because they have cheaper filing fees. LLCs only cost $300 in Texas, versus $800 in CA. As for your income, you’ll be a partnership so each of you will pay your respective state taxes on your portion of the gains/losses. Also, your Texas friends need to remember that Texas does charge a state income tax on earnings from the LLC – so they will need to file a state income tax return.
So long as the loc is only investing,and not also operating a face to face business as well. Like lawn mowing service, candy store etc. You can form the llc in any state. That being said,there are several states where the annual fee is only $10. Montana,New Mexico,South Dakota,Oklahoma,Hawaii.
Can i use personal brokerage account to buy/sell stocks on behalf of LLC? Or do i have to open business brokerage account under LLC name?
You need to open a brokerage with the LLC name on it.
Four members of my family establish an LLC, fund it with personal after-tax money, then purchase a dividend-paying stock. Let’s say I accumulate $600 in dividends each year. If annual business filing fees are $300 in my state, can I deduct the $300 from the $600 income the business is generating resulting in a $300 tax liability that is passed through to the members?
For an LLC, all members receive their share of profits and expenses.
In your example, if they all have equal shares, they would each receive a K-1 showing:
– $150 income
– $75 in expenses
– $75 in net profit
Who “issues” the K-1 for each member?
You do (or your accountant/tax person)! It’s part of filing the LLC tax return.
My wife and I would like to make an investment in a certain stock. For personal/professional reasons, we would prefer the public didn’t know what specific stock we are investing in. Having said that, is it permissible for my wife and I to create an LLC for the sole purpose of keeping our names private for when the stock is purchased (basically, is there any penalty for creating an LLC and not doing business, or only using it to make investments with).
Yes, but anyone digging around could likely connect the two – the LLC will be public record in your state.
If I invest $13,000 in a stock that is traded publicly (without using an LLC), and that $13,000 invested isn’t 5% of the company, then could anyone/general public “search ” my name or somehow see our investment?
All companies are required by law to maintain a list of investors.
While it’s not always easy, typically you can contact the investor relations department and they will provide a list of all shareholders.
Thank you. So just clarifying that a person would have to know what specific stock to get a list of who invested in it, and there’s no way of just searching a persons name?
I don’t know for sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if the SEC monitors it, and if there wasn’t some type of software that could track it.
There really aren’t any reasons to hide your ownership that I can think of. The main ones I think of are red flags and concerning, such as purchasing a competitor’s stock in violation of a non-compete, or trying to hide assets from some type of legal exposure.
New Mexico does not publish or disclose the names of members of llcs.
Great, Thank you very much for answering my questions. Our situation seemed unique, so I appreciate you going into detail. It’s a small town with politics, which was most of my concern.
Thanks again, and just for clarification, the reason I was asking is, for example… a Church Pastor (who does not drink alcohol) purchases stock in a liquor company (I don’t think this would reflect well on his reputation in the small community, even though it is legal and all good in the free market, Mr. Clean Cut Pastor Joe now looks like a hypocrite for investing).
I enjoyed the article and i am also in the process of establishing an LLC with a partner for investment in stocks.
and i contact one CPA that was recommended and said it was “the worst idea and i should stop it”
All i wanted is to know how tax must be filled or the process of it. Do you recommend any CPA ?
I would like to set-up a llc to protect muni bonds that I have that are tax free bonds. I have a bond account in my name only.but I want to make it a llc to protect my money from creditors etc. I should not be taxed because the bonds are tax free income.
Liability protection doesn’t work in that direction because you’re the owner of the LLC, and so the assets of the LLC are still considered yours and their value of the LLC as a whole would be considered by creditors in cases of bankruptcy. In this scenario it doesn’t make any sense to setup an LLC.
I want to start a 2 LLC for investing in stock and real estate. But one I plan on setting up alone and the other with a friend. In your article it says these type of LLC usually have 5 – 20 people. Is it logical to go in alone or with only 2 people? Is this amount of people ever recommended?
You can have one or two members. It doesn’t matter. The great thing with an LLC is that you can use the operating agreement to really specify everything, so it’s great for that.
Great article, thanks a lot for sharing!
One question that doesn’t seem to be covered – Do I have to register with SEC to be able to invest in securities for the LLC?
In most cases, no. But there are some exceptions. Read what the SEC has to say about it: https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsinvclubhtm.html
Thank you Robert for such an informative article.
I have some questions regarding my case. I am on H1B visa program so cannot work for any company other than my sponsor company but I learned that I can open an LLC. Can I do that?
Secondly, can I open an LLC only in my name to get tax benefits?
Thirdly, I plan to invest the money with my friend who is based in Asia and invests in Asian markets. Can LLC solely invest in International markets and get the returns out of it?
Those are some unique situations. You’d best speak to a lawyer who has experience with this before proceeding.
Can you set up at LLC and start investing in cryptocurrencies?
You could theoretically do that, but what purpose does the LLC serve?
Thinking of a way to structure a “crypto investing” group of say 10-20 individuals who invest $50-$100 a month in crypto. Obviously has hurdles, but wanted to know best way to legally structure it. Idea is that fund would decided monthly how group funds would be invested.
Yes, an LLC would work but you’d probably want to discuss with a tax professional due to the underlying asset being crypto and the tax complications associated with it.
I want to set up an LLC ( S Corp unless i shouldn’t).. it is for me and my wife.. so do we do it as 50-50% and joint accout.. mainly for stocks and crowdfunding real estate investment.. we are based in michigan
Why an LLC and not just opening a joint brokerage account?
I am individual, sole investor who wants to trade mainly in derivatives, would opening an LLC be the best option possibile. Thanks
It probably doesn’t make sense to. What purpose would the LLC serve?
Would you recommend creating and using an LLC to invest in real estate crowdfunding where you would otherwise be a member of the LLC created for the investment project. My concern is mainly around liability protection – to protect my other personal assets from becoming involved if the crowdfunding LLC (which would purchase, improve and operate an Assisted Living facility) were sued or a suit came about from within (unhappy partner in LLC, etc). Thx!
As you know, the crowdfunded position is already an LLC, which protects you from issues that arise with the underlying asset. If you’re having partnership issues in the LLC, I can’t see where an extra LLC would protect much and help, especially with the related costs. Your liability to the LLC is only your initial investment, so whether you invest via an LLC or yourself, your losses will always be mitigated and your out of pocket expenses (legal fees, filing fees, etc), will always exist. The bottom line is, I just don’t think it makes financial sense to have another layer of bureaucracy to maintain.
I have a small sole LLC for myslef right now. A few friends and family said they would put money with me to invest and your article was helpful, but I have a question. Could I use my personal LLC as the manager of the investment LLC? And have all the members pay a monthly fee say $50 for management to my personal LLC? (get paid for the trading?)
Can the LLC do what you’re asking? Yes. But, if you get paid a management fee, you’re now a financial advisor and need licensing and such.
Robert thank you for the article. I have been trying to research setting up a single member LLC for long term stock investing only. I’m not looking for active trader status. Just looking for asset protection only, no additional tax benefits. If I understand correctly from the IRS link you published I would be considered a disregarded entity for tax purposes.
“And an LLC with only one member is treated as an entity disregarded as separate from its owner for income tax purposes (but as a separate entity for purposes of employment tax and certain excise taxes), unless it files Form 8832 and affirmatively elects to be treated as a corporation.”
Does this mean I would be subject to self-employment tax (15.3%)? Even if all income is from capital gains?
Also, I was told I would not be able to claim long term capital gains on gains to the LLC? This seems wrong to me?
If this is correct it does not seem to make financial sense to to hold investments in a LLC? I have talk to tax professional but feel the information is not accurate.
Any direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
If it’s just a passive holding, you are not self-employed. It’s just a vehicle for holding your investment, so no self employment tax.
Your gains and losses from the investment all pass through to you. However, if you’re doing it for asset protection, speak to a lawyer. I’m fairly certain you don’t have much in the way of asset protection in this setup. The liability would just file a lien on your LLC, and you’d be forced to liquidate your holdings. An LLC works well for asset protection the other way around (where the liability is inside the LLC – like rental property). In this case, they likely wouldn’t be able to come after anything not inside the LLC. So your other assets are protected.
The only thing you get here is an extra complication for not much in added benefits. If you want some type of asset protection, look at an umbrella insurance policy.
Thank you Robert, appreciate the response. I should have mentioned I was going to hold the LLC in a Trust. But that then that answers the question, why not just hold assets in a Trust. Thank you the information it was helpful.
What if I already have an LLC (not setup for investing, but more of a product/service business), and I want to invest in a tech startup. Can I do that from this LLC or would I literally need to setup a separate LLC to invest in this tech startup, and not do it from my current business?
You can definitely do it from your current business LLC as long as your LLC operating agreement permits it.
I have an LLC but prefer to set another LLC up. I don’t want doing any mistakes on a future LLC account. What kind of a lawyer that I gave to use to do this for me. Please advise.
Thank you, Pool.
General business lawyer. If the LLC is for real estate, find a lawyer that is familiar with business and real estate.
So with an investing LLC, there are no self employment taxes assessed to the members on the income to the entity?
It depends. If you’re holding passive investments in the LLC, then you don’t pay self employment taxes. Remember, the LLC is just the vehicle. The rules for self employment tax or not are the same whether you’re in the LLC or not.
As a Single member LLC, can I take on family investors without making them “members”?
What does “take on” refer to?
Take money from family for an investment without making them “members” of my LLC. Assuming the investment goes well, wasn’t sure how the distributions would be handled if they were not members?
No, you would then be a registered investment advisor because you’re investing their money according to a contract. You would need to be registered, carry a bond, and much more.
Plus, why would a family member do that? They would assume a lot of risk with no ownership of said deal.
Ok, thanks Robert.
Looks like making them a member is the way to go.
Without liquid asset yet can an LLC buy real estate or it needs to have liquid asset before it can be use to buy real estate ?pls reply ..i needed a response
You need to fund the LLC with something in order to buy real estate. Or you can potentially transfer assets to the LLC but there may be tax consequences of that.
Thank you very much for the wonderful article and the thread. I recently registered a sole LLC and received EIN # for sole proprietary LLC. Now I would like to add another member to the LLC. Do I have to change EIN # too? If yes, how to do it?
Thanks,
Lily
No, you don’t need a new EIN. But you may want to change your tax structure. Speak to a tax professional.
I own a business, it’s a services business. I want to use it to invest with Ameritrade or Betterment. Is it wise to use my already existent business for stock investments? I can’t invest myself because I am a non-resident and these companies won’t allow non-US citizens to use their platform but they allow US based LLCs.
I’d love to hear your opinions about it. My options are using my current business or creating a new LLC for investing purposes.
I don’t think it’s wise at all to co-mingle. If something happens to your business, these assets fall under that business. I would create a separate LLC to invest if that is really the route you want to go.
Hi Robert, your article was probably the best one to understand about LLCs and hoping you can give me some direction in my case. I live in California and this year I joined as a member in another LLC based out of North Carolina for real estate investment. I was told for receiving the distributions and other reasons, to open an LLC for myself and make this a member of that LLC instead of being an individual. My investment is already through an LLC so why do I need to open an LLC for myself continues to puzzle me on what benefits I can get and what I will miss if I don’t. Can you throw some light on this situation? Appreciated.
I can’t see how you having an LLC to invest in the other LLC would make any sense. You might ask an accountant, but I can’t see it doing anything for you.
Hi Robert,
I currently have a sole proprietary LLC. Other than naming it and paying the state fees I have not done anything with it, because I was not sure how to go about it. So, thank you for this article and for answering all of the above questions. It is by far the most informative post that I have found. I would like to use the LLC to purchase a vacation home and to protect me against any potential future lawsuits or Long Term Care trying to liquidate my assets. So, will the Nolo software assist me in setting up a bank account and/or an organizational structure? Will the LLC protect my assets in the event I need long term care? Would a trust be a better option?
Thank you in advance for your knowledge and opinion.
Nolo would do the paperwork, but you’re also looking at something complex that may be useful to have an attorney prepare.
Part 2 is that if you need a loan to buy this vacation home, a lender won’t lend to the LLC.
As for a trust versus LLC, another great question for an attorney as this is very much based on state laws, asset protection, your total estate plan, and more.
Hi Robert,
I have to agree with everyone here about how helpful and informative this article is. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. The question I have is around opening a bank account for our investment club which we have structured as an LLC. Three friends and I will be making monthly contributions to the LLC and invest those proceeds in the stock market using a trading account with TDameritrade. Is it possible to open a bank account for an LLC that will serve as disregarded entity for an investment club?
Yes, you can open a bank account for your LLC. You want to look at business bank accounts. See this: Best Business Checking.
Hi Robert,
I will echo what a wonderful post this was. I read all the comments. It’s remarkable that there doesn’t seem to be that much information about this online, or maybe I’m just bad at Googling. Here is my situation.
I just opened a single-member LLC. I am also in the process of purchasing a vacation rental in the name off the LLC. The LLC will generate income from short term rental real estate.
My thought process was to take any excess profits from the rental income and invest that in the stock market in dividend stocks/ETFs. My question is, does that make sense?
From what I gather, from a liability protection stand point, it doesn’t. That’s because if a tenant (or guest) of the real estate decides to sue the LLC, then that puts the dividend stocks/ETFs at risk. However, my thought process in doing so was that the business would have a strong reserve overtime, and the dividends might even be able to serve as a secondary source of income.
In your non-legal, non-accounting and personal opinion, do you think that approach makes sense? Or do you think I should just withdraw excess profits and invest in dividend stocks/ETFs in my own personal name.
What I don’t think makes sense is to take the excess profits (if any), and start a separate LLC soley for the purpose of investing in the stock market, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I am still learning about holding LLCs as well.
Finally, when I created the LLC and was applying for the EIN, I indicated that the primary business activity was real estate. If for some reason this vacation rental deal falls through and I don’t purchase the property, but instead chooses to use the LLC to mainly invest in the stock market, would I need to change the primary business activity designation with the IRS? Clearly, at the time when I created the LLC, the purpose was to buy real estate and use the rental income as primary source of business income. If that changes, (now or in the future), does that need to be updated with the IRS.
Thanks for any insights you can provide.
No, it doesn’t make sense. Keep the rental in the LLC and simply open an IRA or brokerage for your investments. Don’t comingle your business and personal investments.
Ok,
I wouldn’t be comingling business and personal investments. I would be comingling business income (rental income) with business investments (profits from rental income). Do you still think that makes no sense?
Can you use an existing personal investment account as the account for your LLC?
No, you would need to open a new account in the name of the LLC.
Great article. How do you fund your TD ameritrade account? From your personal bank account? How do you open a bank account for your llc?
You fund your TD Ameritrade account however you would fund your LLC.
You can open a checking account for your LLC at a bank that offers business checking. See this list: Business Checking Accounts.